Sistema economico

Discussione in 'Crusader Kings 2' iniziata da Enok, 9 Marzo 2012.

  1. Enok

    Enok Moderator Membro dello Staff

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    Vorrei capire come funziona la riscossione dei tributi all'interno del reame, in particolare nel Sacro Romano Impero. Possiedo direttamente 9 contee (con castello) e con i potenziamenti attuali producono 16.60 oro l'una (leggo dal pannello informazioni a lato del monitor). Le mie entrate mensili sono di circa 20 oro, influenzabili dalle relazioni con i miei vassalli. Il mio dubbio è: quella ricchezza prodotta dal mio demanio in che maniera viene calcolata e a cosa si riferisce (entrate annuali, mensili, ecc)? Mentre i miei vassalli donano solo a me o anche al mio signore, l'Imperatore del SRI? Insomma, se ottengo l'indipendenza prendo di più? E ancora: sono solo le città a pagarmi o c'è modo di riscuotere anche dai baroni? Vescovi, Papi e Antipapi lasciamoli stare per ora. :p
  2. bacca

    bacca

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    non so se sia aggiornato, ma spiega molto, ps cmq per Venezia sbagli, perchè anche con castello base ti genera 20 e più ducati e se dai la città ad un vassallo questo ti odierà per via dell'edificio sbagliato!
    by vashtalelq su http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...-Levy-and-Laws

    Crusader Kings 2 Taxes, Levy and Laws
    Crusader Kings 2 Taxes, Levy and Laws

    Taxes

    There are 3 types of holdings in CK2:

    Castles are owned by feudal lords
    Churches are owned by bishops
    Cities are owned by mayors

    You are a feudal lord so having a city or a church in your demesne is considered having a wrong type of holding and you get 25% penalty to the holding's base income (BI):

    Castles have 6 base income
    Churches have 8 base income and 6 base wrong type income
    Cities have 12 base income and 9 base wrong type income

    Looking at this there is no advantage in holding a church in your demesne instead of a castle!! However if u build a village in both you would get 6.8 base income from the church and only 6.5 from the castle, building a church or castle city gives u 7.5 for the church and 7 for the castle. Despite this you are still better off with the castle because you get more and better troops for a mere 0.5-1 gold a year difference.

    Your State Stewardship (SS) is your personal stewardship (PS) and your adviser and spouse's (AS, WS)

    SS = PS + (0.5 x WS) + AS

    Example:
    Your Stewardship = 12
    Wife Stewardship = 8
    Advisor Stewardship = 14

    State Stewardship = 12 + (0.5 x 8) + 14 = 12 + 4 + 14 = 30

    The bonus (SB) SS gives to your demesne's income is 4% for every point over 5 so the formula is:

    SB = 1 + ((4 x (SS – 5))/100)

    Example:
    State Stewardship = 30
    Stewardship bonus = 1 + ((4 x (30-5))/100) = 1 + ((4 x 25)/100) = 1 + (100/100) = 1 + 1 = 2 (100%)

    Additionally you can appoint your steward to increase one province's income with 2.5% for every point of his stewardship value only for your holdings in the province (LSB)

    Example:
    Advisor Stewardship = 14

    Local Stewardship Bonus = 1 + ((2.5 x 14)/100) = 1 + (35/100) = 1 + 0.35 = 1.35 (35%)

    So the final formula for yearly income (YDI) from your own holdings is:

    YDI = BI x SB and for the holdings where your steward is:
    YDI = (BI x LSB) x SB

    Example:
    Base Income = 6
    Stewardship Bonus = 100% → 2
    Local Stewardship Bonus = 35% → 1.35

    Yearly Demesne Income = 6 x 2 = 12 without LSB
    Yearly Demesne Income = (6 x 1.35) x 2 = 16.2


    For your vassal's holdings your income depends on the tax set by laws (TL).

    Castle Tax depends on Feudal Tax Law 10%/20%/30% (6) 0.6/1.2/1.8
    Church Tax depends on Church Tax Law 30%/40%/50% (8) 2.4/3.2/4.0
    City Tax depends on City Tax Law 15%/25%/35% (12) 1.8/3.0/4.2

    It is clear that the best vassal holdings are churches followed by cities. However if you are catholic bishops will pay taxes to the pope if they have better relations with him so you can hardly have Large Church Tax for –20 relations and get any income at all.

    Vassals have their own stewardship bonus for their holdings (VSB) that is applied to their base income (VBI). So if you have any feudal taxes make sure your vassal counts and dukes have high stewardship value. You can also have Lord-Mayors and Prince-Bishops as vassals but you get -30 relation penalty for wrong government type and even if you manage to get positive relations you only get taxes from their demesne income which is usually one city or church.

    Finally negative vassal relations (NR) give tax penalty (TP):

    TP = (100 – NR)/100
    If vassal-liege relation is positive or zero TP = 1

    So the formula for yearly vassal tax income (VTI) is:

    VTI = (VBI x VSB) x (TP x TL)

    Here is an example:

    Mayor has 30% stewardship bonus → VSB = 1.3
    Mayor has relation of -7 with liege → TP = (100 – 7)/100 = 0.93
    City base income is 12 → VBI = 12
    City tax is Large 40% → TL = 0.4

    Yearly Vassal Tax Income = (12 x 1.3) x (0.93 x 0.4) = 15.6 x 0.372 = 5.8 gold

    Levy

    K = knights, HI = heavy infantry, LI = light infantry, LC = light cavalry, P = pikemen, A = archers, HA = horse archers

    Castles give 225 base Levy (150 HI, 60 LI, 15 LC)
    Churches give 130 base Levy (45 HI, 45LI, 40A)
    Cities give 115 base Levy (75LI, 40A)

    Additional types of troops depend on the province's culture and technology but standard buildings give:

    Castles: K, HI, LC, P, LI, A
    Churches: HI, LC, P, LI, A
    Cities: LI, P, A

    You raise 100% of the Levy in your own holdings. Since castles give the most and best types of troops you want to have castles in your demesne unless you don't want to use only mercenaries and vassal levy.
    Relation with your vassal and Levy Laws determine how much of the vassal levy you can raise. Crown Authority sets the minimum levy you get and Levy Laws set the maximum:

    Crown Authority → 0 min /10% min /20% min /30% min /40% min
    Feudal Levy Law → 60% max / 70% max / 80% max / 100% max (225)
    City Levy Law → 50% max / 65% max / 80% max / 95% max (115)
    Church Levy Law → 50% max / 60%max / 70% max / 80% max (130)

    You always get the min levy set by crown authority but the actual amount up to the maximum is determined by vassal-liege relation (VLR). Relation is transformed into percentage value (P) according to the following formula:

    P = ((25 + VLR) x 0.69)/100

    Now when you apply P to the maximum levy set by law (MXL) you get the percentage of troops (PT) you get from the holding:

    PT = P x (MXL/100)

    Multiply by the number of levy (NL) in the holding and you get the actual troops (AT) you can raise:

    AT = PT x NL

    Example:
    Mayor has 25 relation with liege
    City has 115 troops
    City Levy Law is Normal → 65% max

    Percentage of max = ((25 + 25) x 0.69) = (50 x 0.69)/100 = 34.5/100 = 0.345
    Max Troops you get = 0.345 x 65/100 = 0.345 x 0.65 = 0.224
    Actual troops you get = 0.224 x 115 = 25 soldiers

    Laws


    Now that we know how taxes and levy work we can calculate the positives and negatives law changes give us. Negative relations affect tax and also the maximum levy you get. Positive relations increase the maximum vassal levy you get and lower the minimum tax penalty limit. Crown Authority gives you minimum levy but lowers relations with your barons, thus feudal tax if any. However the penalty hardly applies to feudal levy since with the increased minimum levy you get more troops than any of the Feudal Levy Laws. The only exception is Low Crown Authority where you get more levy at 0 relations from the Minimum Feudal Levy Law. The following suggestions are based on 0 relations and are applicable above that. It is obvious that if you have 100 relation with a vassal the maximum tax and levy laws are the best. Although you will be able to get your relations high in the green zone after a long reign any new ruler will have a hard time keeping his vassals if he has -25 or more relation hit from lows, for mayors and bishops the limit is even -10 since your main income comes from them and you also need good relations with your feudal vassals' vassals since you get levy from them too. The -25 is decided by the chancellor increase relations event which gives +25 and the send gift option which gives +20, so u can easily keep your vassals close to 0.

    These are the best law options at 0 relations:

    ///Crown authority / Feudal Levy / Feudal Tax / City Levy ///// City Tax //// Church Levy / Church Tax///////
    ///////minimum ///// minimum ////// large //// minimum/// large or harsh/// minimum ///// medium////////
    ///////// low ///////// minimum////// harsh///// minimum/// large or harsh/// minimum ///// medium////////
    /////////med//////////minimum////// large///// minimum/// large or harsh/// minimum ////// medium////////
    /////////high///////// minimum////// small///// minimum/// large or harsh/// minimum ///////medium///////
    ///////absolute///////minimum/// minimum/// minimum/// large or harsh////minimum/////// medium////////
    ////////no CA/ ///////minimum/small or harsh//minimum//////// large/////// minimum//////// medium////////

    At first glance it becomes clear that minimum levy laws are the best for all types of vassals. This is so because with Medium Crown Authority and up you get more troops from the minimums than the maximums. At Low and Minimum Crown Authority you get less troops with higher Levy Laws than with the Minimum Levy Law. The way to increase levy under Low and Minimum Crown Authority is to lower tax laws – you get relation boost thus more maximum troops.

    The No Crown Authority column is for countries that are not part of a kingdom and have no crown authority at all or for vassals which get the crown authority bonus but not the relations penalty. In the first case you don't have the minimum levy boost so you need to get troops on you own, that's why you can't set the tax laws higher because it lowers your levy size. Feudal Tax is set to s/l/h depending on which you need more – troops or gold. Small or even Minimum tax is recommended for states with low number of vassals and Large and Harsh are recommended for large number of vassals and high vassal relations. In the case where you are a vassal under some crown authority you want higher taxes for higher authority and the No CA laws under Low or Minimum Authority.

    Finally church taxes are considered for non catholic countries and you should always keep them at minimum levels for catholic or the pope will get more gold than you. Also if you dont get taxes from churches in a catholic country you may consider No Tax and Normal Church Levy Law. Higher church levy laws get you less troops at 0 relations. Also you cant beat Medium Crown authority this way so if your CA is higher than Low go for taxes
  3. Enok

    Enok Moderator Membro dello Staff

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    Non la assegno mica ad un nobile, ma ad un Lord (o come si chiamano) adatto alla città. Se necessario lo inviterò a corte tramite decisione, proprio come faccio per tutte le città (e vescovati) dentro le mie contee. :D

    Riguardo l'economia, il testo che hai postato non risponde ai miei dubbi.
  4. Fuffy

    Fuffy

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    allora da quello che ho capito io la somma che visualizzi nel pannello demaniale
    è il profitto annuo che ti porta quella proprietà (nel tuo caso 16,60)
    quindi sommando le entrate delle tue proprietà dirette viene circa 200 aggiungici le tasse dei vassalli e il conto torna più o meno
    (dici di avere un ricavo mensile di 20 quindi metti che i tuoi vassalli ti pagano un totale di 40 + i tuoi 200=240 diviso 12mesi viene giustappunto 20) almeno mi pare sia così

    quindi sempre teoricamente parlando le entrate che vedi nel pannello provincia sono quelle annuali
    per quanto riguarda i tuoi vassalli non saprei se pagano le tasse anche a quelli sopra di te ma non credo
    loro pagano te tu paghi quello sopra di te e così via

    per quanto riguarda l'indipendanza dipende dal livello di autorità impostato dal tuo signore
    sicuramente ci guadagni in truppe alzabili nelle province
    infine
    le città ti pagano sempre
    i vescovadi ti pagano solo le il vescovo apprezza di più te che il papa
    i castelli dipende dalle tue leggi economiche
  5. bacca

    bacca

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    i tuoi vassalli pagano solo a te, e tu al tuo liege, se devi. Dipende dal Feudal tax level.
    Piccolo consiglio quindi:
    Se sei un re ti conviene eliminare i ducati dal regno , 1 perchè ne puoi tenere al massimo due, 2 perchè non servono, 3 perchè così hai molti più conti che pagano a te invece che ai duchi!
    Ma come fare a eliminarli?
    semplice donandoli a ordini religiosi, prima di distribuire le contee, altrimenti se ne va anche il conte...
  6. Enok

    Enok Moderator Membro dello Staff

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    Mah, questo mi sembra una specie di "trucco" per aggirare il funzionamento del gioco. Non mi divertirei ad avere questi vantaggi sulle altre nazioni, che ovviamente non possono fare cose del genere. Figurati che evito persino di usare troppo il matrimonio matrilineare per allungare la dinastia...
  7. Magu11

    Magu11

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    Io ho notato inoltre che se le relazioni con i tuoi vassalli (non ecclesiastici) sono sopra lo 0, ti pagano quanto ti devono, altrimenti pagano di meno. Non so se però era una mia impressione.
  8. Enok

    Enok Moderator Membro dello Staff

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    Esatto. Infatti io oscillo dai 20 ai 22 mensili, a seconda dei rapporti con i vassalli.
  9. Fuffy

    Fuffy

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    i bonus/malus con i vassalli non ecclesiastici dovrebbero funzionare così

    + 100 +++
    + 51-99 ++
    + 1-50 +
    0
    - 1-50 -
    - 51-99 --
    - 100 ---

    però non so di quanto è la percentuale in più o in meno

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